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Den did you get the pistons Empty Den did you get the pistons

Post  coopsta on Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:46 pm

Den did you order up them Pistons yet?
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Post  Dennman on Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:11 am

They're ordered.Will be delivered to the Lorco in Courtenay for me to pick up.Ordered them Tuesday.I was quoted a price about $20 cheaper than listed on the KB site.
Ron gets a deal since he deals so much through them.
They had 3 sets of +0.020 on the shelf; so arrival is up to whichever shippin company gets them to Canada.
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Post  coopsta on Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:01 am

Sweet!!!
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Post  Dennman on Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:54 pm

The pistons got into Maple Ridge late yesterday.Got the phonecall at 8:00 this mornin.Probably get here tomorrow.
I got quoted $233 + tax,so that'll work out to about $260 CDN.
The $250 US quoted on the KB site would be $348 CDN.
Think I got a deal going through Ron at the Lordco Machine Shop in Maple Ridge and he was thankin me for orderin through him.Nice pleasant helpful fella.
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Post  coopsta on Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:57 pm

Dennman wrote:The pistons got into Maple Ridge late yesterday.Got the phonecall at 8:00 this mornin.Probably get here tomorrow.
I got quoted $233 + tax,so that'll work out to about $260 CDN.
The $250 US quoted on the KB site would be $348 CDN.
Think I got a deal going through Ron at the Lordco Machine Shop in Maple Ridge and he was thankin me for orderin through him.Nice pleasant helpful fella.

Den, I'm not a methmatician but 233 yankee doodle is 314 canuckle bucks plus 38 for tax and you get a total of 352 canuckle bucks?
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Post  Dennman on Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:40 pm

coopsta wrote:
Dennman wrote:The pistons got into Maple Ridge late yesterday.Got the phonecall at 8:00 this mornin.Probably get here tomorrow.
I got quoted $233 + tax,so that'll work out to about $260 CDN.
The $250 US quoted on the KB site would be $348 CDN.
Think I got a deal going through Ron at the Lordco Machine Shop in Maple Ridge and he was thankin me for orderin through him.Nice pleasant helpful fella.

 Den, I'm not a methmatician but 233 yankee doodle is 314 canuckle bucks plus 38 for tax and you get a total of 352 canuckle bucks?

The price $233 was from Ron ,so it should be CDN loonies.
Final cost to me was $306.59.That's $233.74 -pistons,pins ,clips and rings
$40.00 -for Loomis shipping
$13.69 -GST
$19.16 - Prov. Tax
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Post  Dennman on Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:16 pm

The pistons are on the Grey Dog.They'll be site-seein in Nanaimo tonight then on their way to Brooks tomorrow.
You'll be gettin the call,Carlo.
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Post  coopsta on Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:12 pm

I will check the depot
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Post  Dennman on Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:55 pm

coopsta wrote:I will check the depot
Carlo ,could you save me the literature that is included with the pistons.I meant to read it but packed the pistons up in a rush to get them to you.I'd like to keep it for future reference and my records.
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Post  coopsta on Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:01 pm

will do Den, no worries there.
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Post  coopsta on Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:15 am

Well Den she went under the knife this weekend


Last edited by coopsta on Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:50 am; edited 2 times in total
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Den did you get the pistons Empty Photos of dens motor

Post  coopsta on Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:28 am

Den did you get the pistons <a href=Den did you get the pistons Image_zpsak8ma0rq" />

Den did you get the pistons <a href=Den did you get the pistons Image_zpsbj0oma6y" />


Den did you get the pistons <a href=Den did you get the pistons Image_zpsackvyba7" />

Den did you get the pistons <a href=Den did you get the pistons Image_zpsihpt34zj" />
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Den did you get the pistons Empty Made a tool today

Post  coopsta on Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:40 am

A sprocket shaft bearing race remover tool.  Not sure why all photos are only half there. Fuckin bullshit. Any way it sure worked good getting the races out of the cases.

[img]Den did you get the pistons Image_zps0fmfn3p0[/img]

Den did you get the pistons <a href=Den did you get the pistons Image_zpsy9hg7hnz" />

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Post  h.d.ryder on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:22 am

Nice Porn Carlos, keep the pics flowing.
I see you got that "making new tools disease" ,It don`t never go away.Hah!

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Post  Dennman on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:43 am

Thanks for the update,Carlos.Good to see some progress.First time that I've seen the case internals since I had the S&S built.

Did you notice any small brass chips anywhere in the cases?
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Post  coopsta on Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:28 pm

Ya as a matter of fact quite a few chunks small and some fairly large chunks as well. There is some small pitting on the pinion shaft. It looks toast. The crank pin looks pretty decent visually and same with sprocket shaft.
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Post  Dennman on Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:37 pm

coopsta wrote:Ya as a matter of fact quite a few chunks small and some fairly large chunks as well.  There is some small pitting on the pinion shaft. It looks toast. The crank pin looks pretty decent visually and same with sprocket shaft.  

Good on the brass.Didn't think all the pieces that I found were enough to make up what was missing from the two toasted bushings.
If any of those shafts are questionable then replace them.
I'm wondering how the inside of the wheels look.Saw some info on S&S wheels being worn there due to lack of thrust washers.The fella that reported it had machined grooves and inserted brass inserts to bring the surfaces back to stock.Hope that's not the way mine are.

When ya get a list of parts and gaskets to reassemble ,PM or E-mail me to work out acquisition and payment details.
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Post  coopsta on Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:09 pm

Dennman wrote:
coopsta wrote:Ya as a matter of fact quite a few chunks small and some fairly large chunks as well.  There is some small pitting on the pinion shaft. It looks toast. The crank pin looks pretty decent visually and same with sprocket shaft.  

Good on the brass.Didn't think all the pieces that I found were enough to make up what was missing from the two toasted bushings.
If any of those shafts are questionable then replace them.
I'm wondering how the inside of the wheels look.Saw some info on S&S wheels being worn there due to lack of thrust washers.The fella that reported it had machined grooves and inserted brass inserts to bring the surfaces back to stock.Hope that's not the way mine are.

When ya get a list of parts and gaskets to reassemble ,PM or E-mail me to work out acquisition and payment details.

Your wheels look stock no machined inserts. It appears the guy that last balanced them was pretty aggressive with punching many holes all over the place to relieve weight even in areas you shouldn't be like up around crank pin area. I will post photos if you want to see them. I will get the list and call you
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Post  coopsta on Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:13 pm

Maybe I'm wrong but I would think that 3 5/8" Pistons would have to be heavier than 80" or 74" Pistons. These S&S wheels are already lighter than stocker wheels so here is my question. Why are there so many holes to relieve weight when the assembly should be heavier more so with the lighter flywheels. This may well be the reason your rods are shakin wrist pins loose ???
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Post  Dennman on Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:20 pm

coopsta wrote:Maybe I'm wrong but I would think that 3 5/8" Pistons would have to be heavier than 80" or 74" Pistons.  These S&S wheels are already lighter than stocker wheels so here is my question.  Why are there so many holes to relieve weight when the assembly should be heavier more so with the lighter flywheels.   This may well be the reason your rods are shakin wrist pins loose ???    

I noticed those holes up near the crank pin.Wondered on that myself.
It ran smooth with the first pistons (S&S #92-1901), at 461gms. each, in the initial S&S 88" build.
I noticed more vibes with those "one size fits all" 3 5/8" pistons (S&S #106-5532),at 415 gms. each.
The KBs are even lighter at 386 & 388 gms.
I attribute the wrist pin bushing damage to a carb butterfly shaft piece and screw that broke loose.They pounded back and forth on both pistons (about 30+ times) at 80 mph.That was the start of head insert failure and the pin bushing damage.That was about 8-10 yrs.ago.


Last edited by Dennman on Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Den did you get the pistons Empty weird wear on the pinion rollers

Post  coopsta on Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:55 am

Spent some serious time measuring stuff tonight. Them pinion/case roller bearings are all wore tapered. They are fatter on one end and skinnier on the other. Not by a lot, but enough that the micrometer can certainly tell. Going to have to set up the bore gauge to see if the case race is maybe bell mouthed (hour glassed), that would account for the unusual wear showing on all 28 of the case rollers. The bore gauge will give a good picture of the wear. I think the case lap should clean it up no problem Den as the rollers themselves are standard 0.25". So worse case scenario we need to go .0004-.0006 over on the rollers.....

The crank pin has some very tiny pitting/imperfections, can see them with a magnifying glass, it is probably on its half life right now so that is entirely up to you if you want to just replace it. Same with the sprocket shaft, its in fairly decent shape, the splines have seen a few rough days though.
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Post  Dennman on Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:00 am

This is probably my last rebuild that i'll be able to afford so best to do it up right and replace those parts.I've been watching those splines get a little worse every time that I take of the compensator.Now is the time to replace that shaft.Same for crank pin.
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Post  zaac on Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:55 pm

Carlos; I hope you're still in business when my motor needs attention.

Maybe I should stop by and inspect Den's parts myself. MGD right?? Smile

Den, I won't get Carlos drunk until he's done working on your engine for the day lol.
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Post  coopsta on Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:49 pm

I guess if your gonna go hawg wild, we just need to order:

1) Sprocket shaft
2) pinion shaft
3) crank pin
4) timken bearing set for sprocket shaft
5) case roller set
6) rod roller set
7) cam bearing
Cool wrist pin bushings
9) rod races possible if these are not able to clean up.
10) motor gasket kit for cone shovel.
11) pinion bushing if needed
12) cam bushing if needed
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Post  coopsta on Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:50 pm

zaac wrote:Carlos; I hope you're still in business when my motor needs attention.

Maybe I should stop by and inspect Den's parts myself. MGD right?? Smile

Den, I won't get Carlos drunk until he's done working on your engine for the day lol.

Come by anytime.
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Post  zaac on Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:06 pm

I'll give you a call Fri afternoon. If you're tinkering in the garage I'll stop by for a bit to say hello.
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Post  coopsta on Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:21 pm

Sure
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Post  Dennman on Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:33 pm

coopsta wrote:I guess if your gonna go hawg wild, we just need to order:

1) Sprocket shaft
2) pinion shaft
3) crank pin
4) timken bearing set for sprocket shaft
5) case roller set
6) rod roller set
7) cam bearing
Cool wrist pin bushings
9) rod races possible if these are not able to clean up.  
10) motor gasket kit for cone shovel.
11) pinion bushing if needed
12) cam bushing if needed  

Also:
Big bore base gaskets
Seals for sprocket shaft,nose cone, and ?
How does the sprocket shaft spacer look.Is there a groove wore in it?
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Post  coopsta on Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:41 pm

yes, I was pretty sure all the seals and cam cover gasket was in the James motor gasket kit? But yes have to prob order the big bore base gaskets most likely. I am going to check, maybe they have an all inclusive kit for a big bore now.

Coop
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Post  Dennman on Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:23 am

coopsta wrote:yes, I was pretty sure all the seals and cam cover gasket was in the James motor gasket kit?  But yes have to prob order the big bore base gaskets most likely.  I am going to check, maybe they have an all inclusive kit for a big bore now.

Coop

Took a look at James online store (for dealers) and I think your right about the complete Shovel Gasket Kit containing all needed gaskets.
James has 3 big bore base gasket sets. 1 paper set and 2 paper/metal/paper sets at 0.020" and 0.036" thick.
Can't remember what I had in there.

Can you get everything needed through Dave in Manitoba?
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Post  zaac on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:43 am

Do you guys like the James gaskets? I will never spend 2-3 times the money on them again. Cheap paper ones with some good sealer has worked much better for me.
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Post  Dennman on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:32 am

They 've worked for me on long ,hard, hot 15 hr. rides year after year with no problem.
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Post  zaac on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:07 pm

Dennman wrote:They 've worked for me on long ,hard, hot 15 hr. rides year after year with no problem.

Well, I suppose it could be the mechanic. Embarassed
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Post  Dennman on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:16 pm

zaac wrote:
Dennman wrote:They 've worked for me on long ,hard, hot 15 hr. rides year after year with no problem.

Well, I suppose it could be the mechanic. Embarassed

After ridin and wrenchin the same bike for 34 yrs. ,I've got the matein of gasket surfaces to the point that they don't leak unless damaged or overly stressed.
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Post  coopsta on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:42 pm

Pretty much soup to nuts thru Dave. Check Prestoncycle.com Den. It has catalogs and you can also check prices using part number. Dave gets a better deal than what is listed by prob 10-20 percent depending on the item. Best of all once it's 500 bucks free shipping. I can order everything and pay him or you can either or. I just deposit into his business account thru bank in town so if you have a TD near by your golden if you don't you can deposit to my account whatever.
They have the Engine gasket kits but we would have to order the head gasket and base gaskets separate they are James gaskets.
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Post  coopsta on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:47 pm

I already have in stock all the bearings, for the rods and pinion as well as a set of Timken case bearings. I can start lapping the cases and get the cylinders bored.

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Post  Dennman on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:41 pm

I've got the S&S head gaskets,so only the base gaskets need to be ordered.

Just checked the thickness of the ones that I used last time.They are just under 0.030" after use.I'm thinking now that they were S&S and came with the last warranteed head kit that I got.I can't find them at S&S unless the whole top end kit is bought.

James has 0.020" metal and 0.036" metal listed in a 2 set.It seems that one set is too thin and one is too thick.The paper 3 5/8" are 0.032" but only come in packs of 10.

Best that you order what's needed.I can e-transfer to your account however much money is needed to cover the cost of all the bits and pieces.
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Post  coopsta on Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:59 pm

Pistons and cylinders dropped off at the machine shop.
Strange there was a .0054" difference in O.D between the 2 Pistons. Even more bizarre the smaller piston was almost 8 grams heavier than the larger one.
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Post  Dennman on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:20 pm

That is odd.I only got a 2gm. difference in weight between the two.
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Den did you get the pistons Empty The ongoing piston fiasco!!

Post  Dennman on Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:14 pm

Well it would seem that KB quality control was out to lunch when my pistons were packed.As Carlos noted and the machine shop confirmed,the one piston has a dint in it and is at least .005 out on the OD.  scratch

So it's back to me from Alta. and back to Maple Ridge from me.These pistons will have more miles on them and never seen a spark than most twinky slugs.

Havein read  study  more bad than good about Hypereutetic pistons, I'm going to swap them for the forged KB 928s that have all the same specs.Not too comfortable about runnin unforgiving brittle pistons (16% silicone content).The timeing change was not something that I really wanted to deal with either.
I can only imagine what the result of suckin in that carb screw would do to a set of those.  Shocked
They are also heavier and closer to the weight of my original 1800 series S&S pistons.Hopefully it'll take out some of the vibration that I had w/ the last lighter S&S 106-5532 pistons.  cheers

Pistons are in transit to me, but; I have to wait til Fri. til Ron in Maple Ridge is back from holidays to work out the shipping back to him and the swap to the 928s.
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