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New Rocker Shafts.

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New Rocker Shafts. Empty New Rocker Shafts.

Post  Dennman on Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:57 pm

Got my new shafts,spacers,red capped end nuts and washers today.Also ordered late model shovel James pushrod quad seals for the fat ends of the shafts.Dumb me ordered the wrong ones.Shoulda been the tops not the larger bottoms.Anywho, I was a little puzzled when I saw that the surface for these quad seals was tapered on the new shafts.Took my best rocker shaft out of my old set and Lo and Behold--It's a Jim's shaft and has the same taper.My new shafts are the same looking as the Jim's.They have the 3 bearing journals and that tapered seal area.Guess all is good to go as soon as I get the rockers and size them together.Jim's shafts must have the taper to compress the o-rings more when tightening the caps.Got lots of o-rings so i'll be giving them a try again.
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Post  sunnydog on Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:58 pm

Pics if you can Denn, would like to see the assembly phase
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Post  Dennman on Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:25 am

sunnydog wrote:Pics if you can Denn, would like to see the assembly phase
Gonna be a lot of trial and error assembly to get the endplay where I'd like it to be.I tend to get a little wrapped up in cleanliness and accuracy when assembling; so, it'll probably take me awhile to get them all back in the boxes.I should be able to get a few decently focused pics of some of it all.
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Post  sunnydog on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:22 am

Sounds good Denn, hope it goes smoothly.
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Post  Dennman on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:30 pm

Got the new rocker arms in the mail today from Carlos.It's been an afternoon of assembly.
So here's the difference in the shafts that I'm replacing and the new ones.
Left---old stock style /w square shoulder for o-ring seal
Center-Jim's w/ 3 bearing journals and tapered end for o-ring seal
Right---New shafts that have the same Jim's features

[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker10[/img][img][/img][img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker11[/img]

Here's the new parts for the front box--Shafts,rockers,spacers,crush washers and red end nuts[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker12[/img]
I checked the bearing journal ODs on the shafts (best I can remember) at .552" and the bearing IDs in the rockers at .553".That allows a .001" fit which allowed good smooth movement.I only had a digital vernier measuring tool so I was relying more on the feel of the fit.
Now assembling--Slide the rocker arm into the box,Slide the shaft carefully into the box and rocker end ,twisting slowly til the threads just start to show at the other end of the rocker.Drop the spacer in and finish pushing the shaft through the box.Put the washer and nut on and tighten down.Now push the rocker to the fat end of the shaft.
[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker13[/img]
Check the endplay between the spacer and rocker arm.I got .028".That's a .012" and .016" feeler gauge.
Now since i'm using shims and not countersinking the spacer and the bushing protrudes from the rocker end,I pushed the rocker all the way to the left. [img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker14[/img]Measure the gap again.I got .002".That's the .002 gauge laying there.
Therefore .028" -.002" =.026" that i have to shim.
I'm shooting for .004" to .008".Preferably the lower end of the spread.
Disassemble and add two .010" shims at the fat end.I'm reusing shims ,so the discrepancy in my calculations is the wear on the two .010 shims.
[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker15[/img]
Reassemble and do the two endplay checks again.I got .007" to the right and .002" to the left.The endplay is .005" perfect!
The other shaft was done by the same method.It only needed one .010" shim.The endplay is .004".
Some notes that I took for future reference.

[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker16[/img]


Last edited by Dennman on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:17 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Correction on some dimentions and misnamed protrusion)
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Post  Dennman on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:46 pm

Tomorrow i'll do the rear box.I may get delayed if I need more shims than i have now. I couldn't get any through my indy.
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Post  sunnydog on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:11 pm

Great step by step Dennman, excellent resource for reference. I'll be watching for the next chapter.
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Post  kootenai on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:47 pm

looks like smooth sailing there dennman!
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New Rocker Shafts. Empty Filling the rear Rocker Box

Post  Dennman on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:07 pm

Well using the same method as used on the front box,the intake rocker went in at .004 Endplay.Now on to the rear intake rocker.

Well starting the shaft in through the rocker ,spacer and out through the case ,the rocker became very tight.
Kootenays we have a problem!!!
Couldn't get the shaft through all the way.
A little up and down pushing on the rocker and pull it all apart.
Here's the problem.
[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker17[/img]
Notice the dark spot on the box.This area has been massaged before but it's not enough for this assembly of new parts.
There's evidence of interference on the arm but it's hard to see.
[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker20[/img]
Time for a little grinding after taping of the front rocker and oil passages.Got my Handi-Denndi custom air gun in the pic too.It's great for getting into hard to reach places to blow out the grindings.
[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker18[/img]
I used the small burr to rough it down and the stone to smooth it out.Took a couple of grindings to get the rocker moving smoothly.Here's the clearanced area.
[img][/img][img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker19[/img]
The rocker then went in and got a final endplay of .004.
Just need to oil it up well before I put the boxes back on the heads.
Sunnydog I mentioned the rocker box having a thin area where the James gasket doesn't get compressed.Checking the pic I noticed there's actually a couple of spots near the rear bolt holes on the back box.They're the two on the right in the pic.
[img]New Rocker Shafts. Rocker21[/img]
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Post  sunnydog on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:53 pm

Kootenays we have a problem!!! Apollo 13??
Denn, I can see the spots you're talking about where gasket not compressed....so that raised grommet in the James gaskets isn't lining up w the centre of of casing? How can you solve this? sunny
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Post  Dennman on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:58 pm

sunnydog wrote:Kootenays we have a problem!!! Apollo 13??
Denn, I can see the spots you're talking about where gasket not compressed....so that raised grommet in the James gaskets isn't lining up w the centre of of casing? How can you solve this? sunny
Grommet?
The only thing that I can think of w/ those gaskets is to push them as far back as possible.I don't think that'll do it though.The bolts holding the box on to the S&S heads aren't tapered like the stock studs.I'll put just a skim of "The Right Stuff" gasket maker where the casting is too thin to squish the bead.I think that should stop the slight weeping back there.
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Post  sunnydog on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:04 pm

LOL, couldn't think of what else to call that grommet like ridge (a ridge!!!). Yeah I guess extra goop is the answer. What is The Right Stuff? I guess that's the literary reference for "Houston we have a problem" . Is it Hylomar gasket spooge?
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Post  kootenai on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:21 pm

sunnydog wrote:LOL, couldn't think of what else to call that grommet like ridge (a ridge!!!). Yeah I guess extra goop is the answer. What is The Right Stuff? I guess that's the literary reference for "Houston we have a problem" . Is it Hylomar gasket spooge?
its a gasket maker in a tube, its resists gas and oil and if you run a BSA it becomes your best friend...... Very Happy
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Post  sunnydog on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:24 pm

Guess I better get some in the next while... What a Face
How ya doin tonite Koot?
Looks like Denn is makin some good progress on his rockers.
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Post  coopsta on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:36 pm

I don't want to sound out of line boys, and trying not to sound like a broken record but my honest opinion on this topic is to for go the shims......I know that they will definatly take up the endplay but do you really trust them sons of bitches to never wear down and become little floaty things in your oiling system? I mean if your gonna go to all the hard work to take the heads off and re do your rockers why not just counter them dirty little spacers and be done with them bastages? Even just using a drill bit to knock a few thou outta the spacers will work in a pinch?
Sorry for the rant, I just have heard so many bad things about them shims and wavey washers I hate seeing a man going thru the effort that may down the road have problems.

Rant over now you can jump on me for being a dick lol...
Respectively
Coop!!! Laughing
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Post  Roadhammer on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:13 pm

coopsta wrote: I don't want to sound out of line boys, and trying not to sound like a broken record but my honest opinion on this topic is to for go the shims......I know that they will definatly take up the endplay but do you really trust them sons of bitches to never wear down and become little floaty things in your oiling system? I mean if your gonna go to all the hard work to take the heads off and re do your rockers why not just counter them dirty little spacers and be done with them bastages? Even just using a drill bit to knock a few thou outta the spacers will work in a pinch?
Sorry for the rant, I just have heard so many bad things about them shims and wavey washers I hate seeing a man going thru the effort that may down the road have problems.

Rant over now you can jump on me for being a dick lol...
Respectively
Coop!!! Laughing



I was thinking the same thing, just after I originally bought my shovel those wavy washers someone before me put in , I lost the engine due to them breaking up. Iknow your not using them but who needs the xtra pieces floating around up there? Nice work BTW Denn.

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Post  Dennman on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:46 pm

Well there's been shims in the scoot since at least '82.Never had a failure yet.As I've said somewhere recently,i don't trust any machinists around here.Cost me a set of S&S big bore heads last time that I had work done on a carburetor.I don't want to risk shipping my parts to get countersunk and can't do it myself w/ the tools that I have.I haven't heard any bad reports and my experience w/ my riding style doesn't warrant screwing w/ new parts.
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Post  Roadhammer on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:52 pm

Dennman wrote:Well there's been shims in the scoot since at least '82.Never had a failure yet.As I've said somewhere recently,i don't trust any machinists around here.Cost me a set of S&S big bore heads last time that I had work done on a carburetor.I don't want to risk shipping my parts to get countersunk and can't do it myself w/ the tools that I have.I haven't heard any bad reports and my experience w/ my riding style doesn't warrant screwing w/ new parts.



Gotcha

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Post  Dennman on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:14 am

Damn! I made another post here and it disappeared.
I Found a Wavy washer Kit in my stash of parts awhile ago Shocked .Guess I've had them since the early '80s.If anybody wants them Twisted Evil they're yours.
On a more serious thought.I've been thinkin on my methodology to get to the final endplay.I'm pretty sure the method is OK Question but my nameing of the shaft No protrusion is wrong Embarassed .That should be the protrusion of the bushing from the rocker end.
Gotta quit second guessing myself. scratch
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Post  sunnydog on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:07 am

That, sir, was a fine use of emoticons. Not even gonna attempt to top it! sunny
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