Cam change questions

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Cam change questions

Post  '79Lowrider on Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:55 am

I'm thinkin' to swap out my cam for one my indy sold me a few years ago, a Leinweber L3. How do you match the cam gear to the pinion gear and breather gear if you don't have the measuring pins? Quizzed Beeker (my Independent shop owner) on it yesterday and he asked if what was in there before was making a lot of noise. It was definitely making some whining noise, but I'm not sure if it was excessive. He said it'd be no problem for him to swap out the gear that came with the Leinweber to the one that's on the cam that was in the chest, but to first pull the old cam and remove the spacer and thrust washer and slide the new cam into place. Then to see if the cam would slide back and forth on the breather gear and pinion gear. If it slides back and forth without any perceptible bind then it should be fine. Sound reasonable?

Also, the cam that was in the chest is an Andrews BH, any thoughts on that specific cam vs. the Leinweber?

Thanks!

Later,
Marc

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  Roadhammer on Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:13 am

Marc, what your indy says about sliding the cam to check for bind is OK and correct, lots of cams (including mine) were installed that way...that being said the L3S is a great cam ,I got one in my 74. Its a great low end to midrange cam, top end is about the same as stock whereas the B or BH is a higher revving cam. I guess alot depends on your riding stle and such but I sure like my Leiny. BTW, the L3S isnt a bolt in, needs minor head work ,the lift is .485 I believe. The L3S is a solid lifter cam but according to Leinewebers website can run with hydros as long as the are Jims or Velva Touch, usually when the cams too tight it will whine, too loose and youll hear a clicking sound. Good luck!

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  '79Lowrider on Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:59 pm

Thanks Hammer!

Forgot to mention that at the same time I got the cam I also picked up an S&S solid conversion kit with pushrods. Beeker also mentioned to bring the heads in to see if they needed any modifications to run this cam as '79 was a transitional year. But I forget what exactly would need to be changed. Any idea? I think this cam should work well as I mostly just loaf around at low and mid-range rpms and very seldom rev right out. I've got another Roadking getting a 120" Ultima and a 1200 Kawasaki streetfighter if I wanna do that! Laughing

The cam seems to mesh well with the breather & pinion gear so I think I'm just gonna leave 'em be. What's the proper way to check cam endplay though? What number should ya be shootin' for?


Later,
Marc

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  Big Dave on Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:03 pm

Marc if you let me know , compression , carb , pipes i can run the two cams as a comparison for you

Dave
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Re: Cam change questions

Post  zaac on Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:20 pm

I believe you need more spring height with the higher lift cams. My rocker boxes were also ground out a bit to clear the springs. '79 cam end play is .001 - .016" measured with feeler gauge through the tappet hole.

Can't wait to see that thing down here:)
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Re: Cam change questions

Post  '79Lowrider on Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:53 am

Big Dave wrote:Marc if you let me know , compression , carb , pipes i can run the two cams as a comparison for you

Dave

Haven't got a clue what kinda compression it is. Stock 80" as far as I know but I always wondered if it had high compression pistons 'cause it'd detonate a touch on hills even with premium and was a total bitch to kick over. First time I tried kickin' it was after it was good and warm and I stood on the kicker with both feet without the motor rollin' over! No
Figured out how to kick it after a while but it was never easy.

It's a Suber B now but it was such a bastard to cold start with it that I'm thinkin' of changin' to a CV. It had baffled dual exhaust on it when I got it but I kinda wanna go with drags with slip in shorty baffles at the end to give it a bit of back pressure.

What kinda cam are you runnin'? What have you ran in the past?

Later,
Marc

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  '79Lowrider on Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:00 am

zaac wrote:I believe you need more spring height with the higher lift cams. My rocker boxes were also ground out a bit to clear the springs. '79 cam end play is .001 - .016" measured with feeler gauge through the tappet hole.

Can't wait to see that thing down here:)

I guess I'll just take the heads down to Wainwright then. Got some other odds and ends to drop off for the Roadking's transplant anyway. Smile Thanks for the endplay spec!

Don't get too excited though, I'll probably be too broke to do any travelling this summer after all this work anyway... Crying or Very sad

Later,
Marc

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  Big Dave on Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:49 am

Marc the L3 and the BH had the same lift put totally different valve timing , at low comp the L3 is the better cam all around but that said you do a lot of HWY driving and even a little bump in comp would make that B shine , Dennman has been running the B for years and no one will say his bike dosnt pull , Im out of the loop a bit , why you tearing it down and what do you want out of it , I run the stk H cam with Evo rockers 8:1 comp and baffled slip ons biggest improvement for me was changing the rear sprocket to a 48 . Now i pull the hills around here with no problem and cruise at 100 all day and still have power to pull out and pass
Have fun

Dave
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Re: Cam change questions

Post  '79Lowrider on Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:25 am

It's actually been torn down for 4 years or so. I'm just now getting around to putting it back together! Embarassed I rode it for a couple years and it certainly lived up to the poor reputation that Shovel's have gotten... Razz Couldn't get more than a couple hundred miles at a time without having to tackle some kind of a side of the road fixit job, best case scenario, if not a full blown rescue operation. Evil or Very Mad Decided to tear it down in the fall after the electric leg had pooched the last summer I rode it to fix the many, many flaws. Bought that green 'King before I made much progress and just ended up riding it most of the time and ignoring the Lowrider. The next few winters were too damned busy with oilpatch & farm work to have time to fuck with it so it just sat. Finally starting to make a little bit of progress now as we haven't had one blizzard after another so far this winter. Surprised

I guess I'll give the L3 a try, if I don't like it it'll be easy to put the B back in.

How's the weather in Osoyoos? -35 with a -47 windchill here this morning... Rolling Eyes

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Marc

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  Big Dave on Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:32 am

Hahahahaha -1 snowing , suppose to change to Rain this after noon , Should be riding again by Tuesday Smile

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Well I really have to say

Post  coopsta on Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:35 pm

If you have the motor all tore apart anyway, take that cam to Beeker and have him put his gauge pins on the gear and find out what it is. You can insert the cam and slide it back and forth method is kind of a way of doing things but what do you have to to compare it too? The cam will still slide back and forth if the gears are not compatible as well. The cam chest doesn't look to complex but there are some things that need to be properly addressed before you button the cover back up and all those measurements require a clean gasket surface and a new gasket to check endplay on breather and cam. If beeker doesn't have the pins send the cam by post here I can measure the cam gear and pinion and old cam and if one gear is compatible great if the old one is i can press the old one off and put it on the new cam? probably cost you 5-6 bucks to ship it post office.

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  '79Lowrider on Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:24 pm

I've gotta wait for the tools to remove the pinion nut and pull the gear first. Guess I could take the cam and breather gear off and get them looked at though...

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  Dennman on Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:11 pm

Al this discussion about compatibility has me wonderin. I thought that as long as the cam gear, breather and pinion gear were either: 1- all 3 plain faced (early type) or
2- all 3 had the circle groove around the center (later type)
that they were compatible.

Is this not correct?
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Re: Cam change questions

Post  Roadhammer on Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:43 pm

Dennman wrote:Al this discussion about compatibility has me wonderin. I thought that as long as the cam gear, breather and pinion gear were either: 1- all 3 plain faced (early type) or
                  2- all 3 had the circle groove around the center (later type)
that they were compatible.

Is this not correct?

Denn, your talking about late vs early style and yes you are correct, the original question was about fit between cam and pinion gears. THE DIFFERECE EARLY VS LATE IS PITCH I BELIVE, oops, cap lock was on. He was reffering to tight fit causing whine. I think.....

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Re: Cam change questions

Post  Dennman on Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:15 pm

Roadhammer wrote:
Dennman wrote:Al this discussion about compatibility has me wonderin. I thought that as long as the cam gear, breather and pinion gear were either: 1- all 3 plain faced (early type) or
                  2- all 3 had the circle groove around the center (later type)
that they were compatible.

Is this not correct?
 
Denn, your talking about late vs early style and yes you are correct, the original question was about fit between cam and pinion gears. THE DIFFERECE EARLY VS LATE IS PITCH I BELIVE, oops, cap lock was on. He was reffering to tight fit causing whine. I think.....


So along my same line of thought: early stock pinion gear, with teeth the full length of the gear (70-E77),are compatible with the smooth faced cam and breather gears. Also the later stock pinion gear, with teeth half the length of the gear (L77 on), are compatible with the circular groove faced cam and pinion gears.

Does this only apply to STOCK gears and aftermarket have to be checked for compatibility?

If the gears all match for the appropriate year, then why check for compatibility. All my S&S gears match and have whined since put together 10+ years ago. Pretty sure that I replaced the B w/ another B a few years back w/ no difference.
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Re: Cam change questions

Post  Roadhammer on Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:21 pm

Thats a good point about the aftermarket gears, Ive seen breather gears on ebay for later years without the circle.  pinion gears for the later years are color dot  coded, red being the smallest I thnk. Theres about six different sizes for the later years [think diameter], thats why a lot of people use their original cam gear. Too small a pinion gear and itll make a clicking sound, too large causes a noticable whine. [sonds like a blower]. If someone was to combine early and late gears they would grind themselves to junk in about a week, you know the rest....

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